Lately I've been finding myself browsing the forums of the AACA.

Their new logo is much snazzier and appealing than their old one. 

That's the Antique Automobile Club of America.

Their old logo; lots of Duryeas cruising the streets.
Would anyone under 85 have any interest with that logo?

In their general forum section a question was posed, "How can a young broke guy get started in the old car hobby?" The guys on the forum were full of helpful suggestions.

The kid didn't have a garage or even covered parking, and no real place to work on his car. 

In this situation it doesn't pay to get in over your head.

In reality that's liable to cost you dearly. 

So it makes sense to get involved with a car and situation that is likely to have a favorable outcome. 

Car Craft had a memorable issue that proclaimed on the cover: Freeway Flyers; Build 'Em!" 

The article highlighted performance bargains in older model lines that were outstanding in their day, and still offered opportunities to enjoy and augment their performance. At attainable prices. We are talking Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, even Corvette! 

They weren't addressing late '60's and early '70's muscle car classics, they were talking about the late '80's and '90's descendants of these cars. some direct descendants like the Pony cars, some familial, like the GM A body intermediates which no longer offered performance variants.

But they are all V8 front engine, rear wheel drive designs. The classic lay out. With...

Attainable prices.! That's the whole thing. 

The authors were also not advocating buying some clapped out, rusted, wrecked car with a beat motor. Instead they recommended good running cars in good overall condition. With good bodywork, paint, interiors, and good running modern mechanicals. Something that you could do a little wrenching on to improve, but still be driving immediately. 

Did you notice how many times I used the word "good"? 

That made a lot of sense.

If the choice is between dream or do, I choose to do.

This is along the advice that I would offer this kid. There would have to be some adjustments since in this case he wants a vintage car, not a performance car. A '90's car doesn't really fill that vintage vibe.

But he has to find an affordable vintage car in running and hopefully presentable condition. Something that will not commit him to an extensive rebuilding project - at least not right away! 

No sense in getting involved with a project car that needs a lot of work, no matter how cheap, or even free! 

The best of intentions cannot compensate for a lack of resources. You can consider this sentence the most concise and important advice that you will ever read.

Every experienced hobbyist knows that in their heart, but we've all violated that old truism.  Sometimes over and over again.

Is it realistic for a young person with few resources available to get started in the vintage car game? 

The idea that a young person might be living with an old unreliable car that needs constant repair and attention isn't too far from what many, if not most, of us experienced  in our youth. I know that I drove old cars that were well along into their service lives and weren't long for this world. 

Yet even then there were guys that bought a specific car that they wanted, and they held onto it for many, many, years. I've mentioned that this turned out to be a winning strategy for some. 

This was back in the early 1970's.  The cars that I was fooling with were late 1950's and early to mid 1960's models.

Cars that were not really that old, some less than twenty years old. Flash forward to Today, and that would be cars from the new Millennia, post 2000! Where did all those years go?

Are cars of this age, vintage cars? Yes and no. While they are quickly approaching the 25 year old standard of collectibility, I don't think that is what that young guy was looking for. 

Here you go, a straight complete mid 50's more door Pontiac.

I would recommend late 1950's or an early 60's car, something simple. A full sized base model Chevy or Ford, with a straight six and maybe a manual transmission. Or a compact, like a Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant, or Chevy Nova. A low option car with a lot less to go wrong. There were lots of simple, basic, Dodges, Plymouths, Impalas, Galaxies, and Buicks. You are probably going to have to settle for a more door. Pick up trucks are another great choice. Parts would have to be readily available and affordable. 

Vintage pick ups are simple, and they retain their utility and value.

I was surprised to find that the CCCA forums had several low buck build threads that were posted by young guys. They featured situations like freeing up and starting an engine that hadn't been fired in 10-20 years. With lot's of low buck, greasy hand tactics to get the engine running. The cars were '50's sedans that had been sitting under some type of shelter, or weather protection, so they weren't rusty wrecks. These threads would not have seemed out of place on the HAMB! 

I won't say that everything is impossible, it just takes a lot of commitment and the willingness to do the hard work. It also takes finding the right car. Which is a sizable hurdle in itself. Perhaps the greatest hurdle.

I registered on the forum so that I could contribute comments, and even sent in my money to join the club. What has surprised me has been a pretty open and welcoming attitude by posters on the forums. I kind of expected a bunch of snooty old farts that wouldn't give the time of day to someone with a '60s or '70s car, but I've been pleasantly surprised. What is really interesting is that the forum is set up with a lot of feedback for the commentors. You receive notifications on comments that were included in later responses. They also give you points and awards for participation!

I admit that I find that kind of feedback useful and fun. I shared that I had my own blog and that I was used to talking a lot.  That I did not like leaving simple one sentence responses, or a thumbs up emoji. In reality I enjoy writing and sharing my thoughts. I am happy to start a discussion and find that others enjoy my contributions. That's the only pay off that I receive for the work of producing this blog. 

I hope that everyone had a happy Thanksgiving and I'm very thankful for the people that take a few minutes out of their day to read my ramblings. 

 Rust - again.

This centuries old painting was destroyed
by a well intentioned amateur attempt to restore it. 

The best of intentions can lead to tragic results without the required resources and skill. Just like the tragic tale of this painting from a Spanish church that made international news.

Mitigation versus management, and why you need to accept the need for both.

A car guy's attitude towards rust can tell you a lot about them, and yourself. It's not always a complimentary revelation, in either direction. 

I am a preservationist. By preference. 

Oily rag.

I would love to have an Aston Martin with this level of patina.

This is a reference to certain enthusiasts that make every effort to maintain and preserve the original cosmetic appearance of their car. The body and metal components are merely rubbed with an oily rag to prevent further corrosion. The interior upholstery are stabilized by inserting a layer of support fabric under the worn areas and restitching. The idea is to preserve the vehicle, not to improve it, unless it is absolutely necessary. This was the common practice back in the 1950's before the practice of total restoration became popular.

For some people, auto restoration seems to be a way to completely control at least one aspect of their lives and render it perfect. At least it seems that way to this observer. You can detect a certain zealotry in their forum posts

On the other hand, some people seem to embrace shoddy workmanship and hidden bodges. 

Of course there is a happy medium.

There was a thread on the HAMB where commentors were asked to display the worst things that they have found under the paint of an old car that they have bought. 

What, That doesn't qualify as a skim coat? 

That repair doesn't look that bad.

It only gets worse the deeper you dig.

That rusted out hole was covered up by old license plates
 that were screwed then bondo ed over.

There were stories of inches of bondo and supporting material found under shiny new paint. The supporting material used varied from metal screen, to galvanized flashing, to riveted sheet metal from traffic signs, to wads of newspaper! There might be up to three inches of bondo used to complete curves in the body. 

Of course, over time, the bondo cracked and broke off, taking a huge chunk of the car body with it. Along with the new owners enthusiasm for their purchase!

Cars are merely machines built to be used. They are manufactured, sold, and used for their intended purpose over a long lifespan with a succession of different owners. Until their utility erodes and they are eventually scrapped. 

Manufacturers only engineer a reasonable service life into their products. Obsolescence and decay is a fact of life. Sometimes the product is still viable functionally, but it is no longer "supported" by it's maker. How many computers, tablets, and cell phones have you scrapped in the last 15 years? Did you mourn their passing? 

POR products are the real deal
and will give satisfactory results.

I've mentioned this product before,
it was highly recommended by some people on the H.A.M.B.

The availability of rust encapsulating paint and epoxies have allowed hobbyists to make cosmetic rust repairs that might not be metal replacement correct, are certainly much better than bondo and newspaper. 

There are "no welding" patch panel repair kits that come with flange ing pliers, flush rivets and construction adhesive. I used this system to repair a panel on one of my old Zs.

 

This kit was available from Eastwood products.
Did you know that aluminium cars are largely constructed with adhesive and rivets?

Bondo will absorb water and the moisture will result in the repaired area rusting further. POR paint adheres to the rusty metal and prevents further interaction between moisture, air and steel. Effectively ending the process. 

Repairs to floorboards or trunk floors that can be described as pinholes and small holes  can be effectively repaired and the areas strengthened by application of steel mesh or fiberglass matte. In reality, most people would be surprised by how thin the sheet metal of the floor was originally. 

On previous projects I've used POR products to repair the lower edge of a front fender as well as the rear wheel arch lip of A Datsun Z. Both repairs were visually satisfactory and they should last for many years. Is there anything wrong with that? Especially if the products are used as the manufacturer intended? 

I once discussed some rust repair on another Z with one of my swap meet customers. The top of the tail light panel where the hatchback striker rests is a common place for surface rust. I recommended that for minor rust, an epoxy repair could be done by the owner. He was adamant that the panel would have to be cut out and a new one welded in. He wanted it to be all steel. When I asked him why he responded that he wanted the repair, "to last forever!" I told him that the owner wasn't going to last forever!

Does it occur to him that modern cars front and rear panels are now constructed of plastic castings and bumper covers?

No one wants to be known as a rip off artist. That is a result from actual misrepresentation and the intention to cheat the buyer. However, why not document  any repairs? It's now it's quite easy to do with digital cameras and home printers. 

In the interest of full disclosure, I plan to document any epoxy repairs so that a new owner can locate them after the car is painted and replace them with metal if they wish. If the epoxies are used in non structural locations in minimum amounts there shouldn't be a problem.

I think that I'm going to put together a photo book on any repairs done to the car. It's never been my intention to misrepresent any work that I've done. I'm not going to try to pass the car off as a rotisserie restoration. Instead it is just going to be what we used to call a "fixed up" old car.

 That don't impress me much!

You're one of those guys that likes to shine his machine

You'll make me take my shoes off before you let me get in

I can't believe that you kiss your car goodnight

Now c'mon, baby, tell me- you must be joking, right?

Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something special

Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something else

Okay, ...so you've got a car.

That don't impress me much!

So sang Shania Twain back in the Nineties. 

She wasn't impressed because some guy had a Ferrari. Ladies are used to having every guy try to impress them, so many of them build up a sensible immunity to that. That's one situation. However, I don't think that anyone is actively trying to impress- me! 

Is being hard to impress, is that just a part of getting older? Is it just that things just don't seem to make that much of an impression anymore? Have I just become jaded?

It does have to do with the breadth of a person's experience.

Where I live, I see a lot of very interesting and cool cars on the highways and streets. Just in the last couple of weeks I've seen a Pantera, an Avanti, and an '80 Trans Am, and a Lexus LC500.

Not to mention a Ford Raptor, several Porsche Taycans, and so many others.

Then there are immaculate Lowriders and muscle cars. 

So many expensive high end production models of Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Land Rover and Lincoln.

Are those cars still supposed to function as a status symbol?

Am I supposed to be impressed by someone's display of wealth?

I've read articles over the years that claim that older people report higher levels of happiness and satisfaction than younger folks.  There are probably a lot of reasons for that, but one factor is that old folks are more accepting of reality. They've made peace with their situation in life. They can be grateful for the good things that they have in their lives, their relationships and achievements. 

Of course it just may be that we old folks just don't give a crap about anything, anymore!

I have long ago accepted the fact that others have a larger income than I do, so they spend it accordingly. They will be able to enjoy a level of material consumption higher than mine. Does that make them a better person than me? No, of course not. All it means is that they can afford more expensive things. 

Living in Silicon Valley there are quite a lot of people that make an awful lot of money working in the high tech industries. 

My Mother taught me that it wasn't polite to discuss how much something cost, bragging about how expensive something was, is a sign of bad taste and poor upbringing.  I used to have a neighbor that used to do that, he even had to have two BMWs, to make his point!

I do not begrudge anyone spending their own money to purchase whatever it is that they want, it is their money after all. 

I have lived in my neighborhood for over thirty years. It's a pretty good assumption that anyone that has moved in since, has a higher income than I do, since the prices have just kept getting higher and higher! 

Sometimes people choose a car to make a statement about their status as an enthusiast.  This is something that I generally approve of. 

These are the guys that drive a restored vintage car, an older sports car or a modified older vehicle. 

You are what you drive, so the old saying goes. Did you ever buy into that line? 

Although the choice of your car can be a big part of your image management. 

Dress for success.  Looking good for the ladies. That's what every guy is trying to convey, thinking that it will help impress members of the opposite sex. We think that our choice of car contributes to that. Well, we all hoped that it was true, at least when when we were younger! We usually learned that it wasn't the case... Exactly.

Although it was never a good idea to look too poor, too slovenly, or too "peculiar."

Actually you drive what you need, can afford, and like. 

When I needed a minivan, I drove a minivan. I remember what The Oak Ridge Boys said! I now need a truck, so I drive a truck.

So as a car guy, what should I be driving? To establish my cred as a car enthusiast?

There's a house that I frequently drive past in town that has a very clean '67 Chevy Impala Lowrider parked in front. If one Lowrider isn't enough, there's an '81 Cadillac and '80's Buick Regal included in the line up also. I like low cars, and have driven a couple that I've lowered, though I wouldn't say that I was ever a real Lowrider.

Should it be something mean and nasty like a souped up 60's or 70's musclecar?  I've mentioned that my older brother drove several Camaros and a Trans Am back in the day. I loved those cars and even got to borrow them on occasion. They were great for the times. Last week I saw a '79 Trans Am in traffic and truthfully wasn't very impressed.

Or should it be just an interesting old car, something quirky and different? I don't mind being thought of as different, but different can easily segue into weird. 

Should it be something mainstream like a '57 Chevy? 

Should it be something that is clearly expensive, either old or new? Though I don't know if I could get my Wife on board with that idea.

Should I just be driving something late model and sensible, like showing up to the West Coast Kustoms show in my Flex? Would that make me look like a poser? 

I gave up on having a classic hot rod years ago. I even tried to build one once. I think that they belong to a period of automotive culture that has had it's time. It's passed me by, at least.

I'm also pretty much done with anything from the '50's '60's and 70's. I've had several cars from that time period.

I like to tell my Wife that one the good things about being an old man is that you don't have to care what you look like. On the other hand, the bad thing about being an old man is that you don't care what you look like! 

I'm now at the age where I have little interest in establishing status through vehicles. The truth is that I never really did. Though I didn't mind driving something that I thought was "appropriate." At least for me.

My factors in consideration of status now are residence, occupation, and accomplishments.

If you live in an exclusive area it's safe to say that you've got enough income to live there.

Occupation can tell a lot about a person. Their education and training. How interesting and challenging their vocation is. 

Finally there are accomplishments. These can range from military service, raising a family, starting a business, charity and community work.

It's best of these facets of a person's life are revealed gradually, not boastfully pronounced.

This entire discussion might seem kind of silly to a lot of people, but my car is important to me, even if I don't kiss it goodnight.

Like most people I've spent my entire life taking care of business, fulfilling the responsibilities that I took on. 

If I can't have something that I like, and that means something to me, than I feel kind of cheated, especially at my age. Like all my work has been... for what?  I guess that sounds kind of superficial, but we've all got our priorities. 

 I found the nuts, but lost my carb parts. 

This is after I sprayed down the moving parts.

I had ordered the part to replace the broken needle/jet seat as well as some rebuild gaskets. Again, I put them somewhere that I was certain that I'd never forget, or I'd recall that clever connection.  NOT!

I'm still looking, but I kept on with my carb inspection process. The initial problem had been that the throttle shaft wouldn't move when I stepped on the pedal. I found that the linkage was bound up, frozen solid actually. I couldn't tell if it was the throttle slides stuck to the bore or if it was the butterfly plate or what. 

I decided to remove the carb assembly so that I could work on it on the bench.

That had been the idea, but it got pushed back further and further. At least I put the carb assembly back in the car.

I didn't want to work on the carbs on my wooden table since I didn't want to be spraying carb cleaner close to the laundry area.

Carts come in very handy.

Instead I brought in a metal roller cart so that I could work right next to the open garage door. I fixed up a a large shallow box that I made sure had a sold bottom panel which I installed and a metal roasting pan that I could contain the carb spray run off. 

Yes, this is only a cardboard box. I sealed up the side holes.
 I don't want to lose any more parts.

The Jag uses two large SU constant velocity carbs, at least that was what Honda called them on the CB450 back in 1965. I'd read a lot about British carburation in the motorcycle mags of the day. Variable venturi, which means that the size of the carb bore changes as a vacuum cylinder slides up and down. It not only regulated the air velocity it also regulates the fuel metering as a needle attached to the slide moves up and down within a jet. 

photo source; flicker.com
Note the dome shaped structure on the top.

The throttle plate only controls the amount of air entering the venturi, the slide rises and falls based on on the amount of vacuum present in the manifold. Therefore the  driver cannot force too much fuel into the motor by opening the throttle more than is needed at that moment. The carb maintains the setting that produces the greatest amount of vacuum. Savvy drivers used to mount a vacuum gauge inside the car, so that they could monitor the vacuum level and keep it high. They would not over throttle the motor. These were frequently refereed to as economy gauges as maintaining high vacuum provided the best power and fuel efficiency. These carbs do not employ an accelerator pump.

The carbs, unlike most American carbs also do not employ a choke plate to enrich the fuel mixture on cold start up. This also allows a greater and freer flow of air through the venturi. Honda used an actual manual choke plate like their other motorcycles. 

The heart of the starting carburetor is this electro magnet and disc valve.
I tested it and it works.

Some type of enrichment system has to be employed, often there is a built in system that most drivers referred to as the "choke," regardless. Jaguar chose a "starting carburetor" which provides the enrichment. Most American cars up until the 1950's employed a driver controlled choke. This was more reliable and effective, especially with the variety of weather that this country sees. 

Many drivers had trouble operating the choke. If left engaged for too long, the motor would chug along on it's over rich mixture. Trailing behind a cloud of black smoke and eventual fouled plugs. Then the motor would stall.

If the choke was released too soon,  the cold motor would have trouble gaining revs and would often die when pulling away from a stop. Again, a stall. 

Back in the Model T days, the driver was also responsible for retarding the spark to ease starting as well as applying the choke. Then they would advance the spark timing smoothing out the running of the motor. But they couldn't forget about the choke. There was also a hand operated throttle lever on the steering wheel. Factor in the three foot pedals and the Model T pilot was kept pretty busy!

Detroit discovered a method that relieved the driver of any responsibility of ignition timing. The automatic advance distributor uses an internal spring and cam which advances the point cam. That was later combined with a vacuum advance assembly. This system lasted well into the 1970's until ignition points were replaced by magnetic pick ups.  As the 1950's dawned manufactures found a system to automate the operation of the choke, at least for more expensive makes. Step on the accelerator once, then crank the motor. When adjusted properly the system worked pretty well. 

Jaguar designed an automatic system that activated the starting carb when cold. Upon reaching a specified minimum operating temp the system would dis engage.

Most other cars also had carbs with" accelerator pumps." These would shoot a dollop of fuel into the manifold to help transitions from low to high sudden rpm.  This shot of fuel could also help start a cold motor in conjunction with the choke. Or it could hopelessly flood the motor. 

The SU carbs do not feature an accelerator pump, so all fuel has to come from the starting carb. If it malfunctions, and from what I've read this was not uncommon, the motor would be a devil to start. Jaguars and other SU equipped cars gained a reputation as being very hard to start in the winter. Combine a weak ignition with a slow turning six volt starter and the process could become quite maddening. No wonder the cars had such poor resale value. Lucky for me, my car is 12 volts.

Jumper cables, cans of ether starting fluid, and heating the oil in the sump, (only seven quarts!) were often tried as antidotes.

The adoption of fuel injection has had far reaching improvements to the starting and drivability of our cars.

This post has been a lot of elaboration over the process of exchanging a few damaged parts. I'm just going to reorder the parts I've misplaced. I need to get moving again. I need to fire up this engine up.