Better Beaters - Building Cars and Daily Drivers

 How much is that old Doggie in the Window?

1938 REO

'56 Olds

'51 GMC

'60 Chevy

'81 Trans Am

'74 camaro

'69 Olds Cutlass

'30 Model A

'77 Riviera

Or perhaps, "How much should that old Dog be?"

Is there some kind of reasoning or logic applied to the prices that are being asked for old project cars?

What bugs me is the price that is being asked for beat up, run down, unpopular old cars on formats like CraigsList.

Especially some plain vanilla, base model, six cylinder, four door that was never considered to have been cool or desirable- ever! 

Another post bemoaning the high price of buying into the old car hobby. 

For example; Impala coupes and convertibles have been desirable cars for a long time. They are high trim models that usually have optional equipment as well as V8 engines.

Is a beat up old Biscayne four door sedan even close to the Impala's value? A seller was asking 13,000 dollars for a car like that! It seems like a lot of sellers seem to think so!

Who sets the prices anyway?

The sellers of course.

I firmly believe that the seller has the right to ask as much as they want, for anything that they put up for sale. 

Likewise, the buyer is free to pay any price that they wish, whether or not it's a fair deal or not. The buyer has the ultimate say, there isn't anyone out there forcing them, or you, to buy any old car.

I always wonder what these cars ultimately sell for. If they sell at all. That's the question that my Wife always asks me. I usually don't have that answer.

The listed cars disappear after a while, sometimes they are sold, sometimes the seller will relist them later. They often end up in the hands of a flipper.  How are we to know?

However, I don't think that unrealistic pricing is doing the "hobby" any good.

An unrealistically high price will keep many buyers away, especially those that are just browsing the classifieds, waiting to see if anything "pops up" and catches their eye. 

Casual buyers usually have a price range in the back of their mind, if something shows up that is close to do-able, their interest perks up. If the price is too high, even on something that they would really like to own, they're not likely to contact the seller. It's possible that the buyer and seller might be closer on a realistic price than first appears. I think it's better for everyone if the seller advertises their car closer to a price that they would be willing to accept.

It's hard  to judge the value of old cars. 

Some sellers have lots of paperwork and receipts for repair and maintenance. They have evidence that there was money spent on mechanical and cosmetic improvements. The cost of the refurbishment or restoration  usually won't be completely recouped by the seller, but it does help establish the value. As does the current condition of the vehicle. Despite price guides there is no reliable way to know if the asking price is fair or inflated. The car could be professionally appraised, I suppose. I might do that if I was ever to buy an expensive car.

On the other hand, used cars depreciate at a consistent level, unless there was an unusual situation where new cars are in short supply, which occurred during the pandemic. The original sales price is a known factor and generally the value drops every year. If I have my eye on a car that is currently selling for 20K, I just have to wait until time and depreciation will drag the value down to my level. 

This is why it's recent cars that have gotten my attention lately. 

For old guys like me, it's pretty hard to see asking prices for 50's, 60's and '70's cars shoot upwards in recent years. We used to pay 500-1,500 dollars for these cars back in the Day! 

However I have to accept the reality that a lot of the increase is just due to inflation in general, and the passing of multiple decades. 

I bought my first car, a '66 Mustang V8/four speed coupe in fair shape for 300.00 in the early '70's, I probably could have found a fastback or convertible for a couple of hundred bucks more! I was probably only making 2.00-3.00 dollars an hour then. Gas was 35 cents a gallon!

Okay, you get the idea. My mind has frozen on those values. I bought that Mustang almost 50 years ago! Get Real Boomer!  If I really want to buy an old car Today, it's time for a reality check. 

I spend a lot of time on the classified listings on the AACA (Antique Automobile Club of America) forum. I find the asking prices to be more realistic, and most of the cars are in pretty good shape. They do cost more however.

Most serious sellers have a realistic bottom line. If they don't have a pressing need to sell the car, they can hold out for a better price. As a buyer, I'm always hoping for a desperate seller who really needs the money!  

While I don't want to take advantage of some guy that's really down on their luck, a price can be negotiated that should satisfy both parties. That's capitalism. 

I had read an article in a motorcycle magazine written by a bike flipper. He wrote that if you don't see the buyer wince when you make your final offer, that means that you left some money on the table!

When I was buying Datsun Zs to part out, I finally got to experience what it's like to have the power on my side of the transaction. After inspecting the car I made my offer. I knew how much I wanted to make off the parts at a minimum. I wasn't going to pay more than I had to. I was always prepared to walk away. I had no emotional skin in the game. I got some pretty good deals back then. As always, cash in hand will prevail.

So, how much should that doggie be? It depends. "How much do you really want it?" That's a big part of the equation with vintage cars, It's not like they're making any more '63 Cadillacs. If the buyer is getting on in years, the window of opportunity to enjoy the car is certainly getting smaller. That provides a lot of motivation to the buyer.

There's a car lot in Santa Clara, American Classics and Customs, that sells collector cars in very nice condition. They are not cheap, but if you reasonably consider how much money and time it  would take to restore an old, tired, worn out car, it doesn't seem unreasonable. At my age, I probably have more money, or at least access to credit, than I've got time left!

I used to tell my Wife that my super power was that I just didn't really need or want ANY car that much, anymore, so I can resist buying anything. What goes along with that power is that I don't have much money to spend. This is a potent combination. I'm not likely to buy a car on a whim.

Have you done your due diligence to determine what the car should be priced at? 

All you can go on is comparable sales values. Actually, you can only see what comparable cars are priced at. If you are looking to buy a certain old car, chances are that you spend hours on the Net looking at the listings. There are price guides but I don't know how accurate they are. 

Those old project cars that I posted earlier are all for sale at a realistic price, some negotiable.

What's not negotiable is how much money each of them will need to become a usable vehicle. The CL ad for the oldest cars shows that the interiors look just as awful as the exteriors. They don't run and they will all need a complete mechanical refurbishment. The cheapest paint job I can get would start close to 1,000 dollars. Rebuilding the engine, transmission, and chassis will run well over ten thousand dollars, even if you do a lot of the work yourself. 

Suddenly a 10,000 dollar runner doesn't look so bad, and a nice original or partially restored car for 15-20,000, doesn't seem so ridiculous. You could easily spend twenty grand fixing up that old REO coupe and still not have a really nice car.

That's a lesson that the guys on the AACA forum have learned. Pay more upfront for a car that you can enjoy now, instead of many years from now. 

However things are not as bleak as I've been thinking. As I went through recent, active CL listings looking for examples of overpriced cars to prove my point, I found many that were available at attractive prices.  Some of these are true builder projects that will need a ton of work, others are up and running and could easily be a drivable project.

'38 REO 2,200  

'51 GMC 2,200

'56 Olds 2,200

'81 Trans Am 7,000

'74 Camaro 7,500

'69 Olds Cutlass 3,850 This was the best deal, it's a runner with a decent interior, and best of all, PRE SMOG. I'd jump on this one.

Model A roadster  5,300 Needs everything, but it runs and everything is available from the aftermarket. And it is an instant classic hot rod, just add money!

'77 Buick Riviera 4,500 This is close to my Vintage Lite ideal.

I might have been proven wrong, but that's okay. Actually I'm glad that I was. Muscle cars, classic hot rods, and Kustom fodder is still out there.  It's good to know that affordable, attainable project car candidates are still out there. You just have to have the cash on hand, keep your eyes open, make a firm decision, and be ready to move on it.  But be realistic, if you want to enjoy the car in the near future, buy something that is running, or close to it. That will be your best chance for success. 

Good Luck and Happy Hunting!