Question of the Day?

On, those mysterious and desirable vintage cars.
photo source: filmnoir.net

How does an antique car fit in Today? For my "lifestyle?" That's what any potential buyer has to decide for themselves. And those are the hard questions that I'm asking myself. After all, If I really want a certain car I might have to let one or two go. 

I find this car to be very attractive.
photos source: CL

I've been doing a lot of thinking about a '40 LaSalle that I saw offered for sale on CL. 

I finally went to check it out, as I've been fantasizing about how I would like to buy the car, if everything could be worked out on my end. But first, I had to see it in person. It is advertised as a good running car, and the photos show that it is in good overall cosmetic shape, all the trim is in place, with a good interior. It needs the little things squared away, but it is far from a project. I don't want to get bogged down in a big project anymore. Well, I don't want to get bogged down in any project anymore.

So I made an appointment to check out the car, which is located over 50 miles away. 

The seller was a very nice younger guy (40's is young to me!) who showed up with his teenage son. The car was located in a storage facility. The seller had removed the battery and was keeping it charged up. The car retains the six volt system.

The car looked pretty good. It definitely made a good first impression.

Not a pleat to be seen. But it was nice.

The paint was dull,  but it's hard to tell if it can be polished out when it is so dusty. The respray wasn't particularly a high quality job, but I'll bet that it can be improved. The obvious flaw is where gas dripped down from the cap and damaged the paint pretty badly. The chrome could use some cleaning and shining, but overall it would look good with a little TLC. The interior had been restored sometime in the past. The seats and door panels were done in a blue /gray herringbone tweed, the headliner looks really good and blue carpeting covers the floor. Cars of this vintage had very plain upholstery, just flat, smooth, expanses of fabric. The dash also needs to be shined up. However it appears that all the chrome trim is present. 

Kind of a minimalist dash design, but it looks nice.
That big box is the heater. 

The car is straight and complete.  The engine still retains it's original oil bath air cleaner. I like that it is all original and unmodified. It started up and ran quite well, no trace of smoke on start up or after the test run. No major oil leaking, just a minor drip or two, and there didn't seem to be much rust underneath. It has a spare tire and jack. The wipers, radio, and heater are inoperative at this time.

There are a lot of questions when thinking of buying an old car. The usual things like the condition, price, storage, etc. But there are even more considerations when the car is a really old car, an antique.

This car is much older than any car that I've ever experienced, or considered, well except my '22 Dodge hot rod project, and that didn't turn out so well.

This is a car that is primarily going to be a "showpiece" as that will be it's primary purpose. It will be usable for occasional drives on a nice day under favorable conditions. I could take it to Cars and Coffee events and other shows. It certainly won't be used as a daily driver. 

I've got several modern day daily drivers, so that is not a problem.

It looks a lot like a Cadillac Sixty Special, at least to me. 

So once you buy it, you've now got a large car that needs to find a home in your garage most of the time. The car needs to be able to fit in my garage. It is at least a foot shorter than my departed '56 Cadillac, but a couple of inches longer than my Navigator.   

My Riviera is 208 inches long, two inches shorter than the La Salle, and it fits okay. The Flex is the same, or an inch lower in height, but 8 inches shorter in length. I think that it should fit okay, but I'll probably have to move my tool boxes. 

My major question is: How suitable will this car be, to be driven in traffic? How well does it perform, and how "safe" is it.

But there are even more questions when considering a really old car, an antique. This particular car wasn't equipped with any seat belts, which was surprising, as most old cars will usually have them added by now.

The seller volunteered to take the car on the freeway to demonstrate how well it runs. No, No! I told him, please do not get on the freeway! I'm not going to ride at freeway speeds in traffic in a car without even lap belts! 

Can the car keep up with modern traffic? Slow cars can become a hazard.

La Salles are equipped with a slightly smaller version of the Cadillac V8 and were considered sprightly performers in their day. The transmission is a synchromesh three speed that was favored by Hot Rodders. They bolted them to their flathead V8s. I've read a couple of reviews, one that was written in the 1990's that indicated that the car could easily maintain a 70 mph. cruising speed. The synchromesh transmission makes it easy to shift. 

The Hydramatic transmission first became available in 1940, but I would prefer a  car with a three speed. Like this one.

But how good are the brakes? I had concerns about my '70 Mustang's stopping ability.

Well, they are what they are. Unless disc brakes are added. The addition of radial tires could help in stopping and roadability.

Of course, occupant safety is a big concern. Lap belts are easy to add, and are a necessary addition. Laminated glass was adopted by all American cars in 1937, but it's not the tempered glass familiar to modern drivers. That breaks into crumbles. You can still get cut by the crumbles, but there aren't any jagged shards. The windshield is laminated but not tempered. This will break into shards, but they should hopefully remain attached to the main windshield. If the occupant hits the glass, they will likely receive some serious lacerations. Lap belts should prevent that. The steering column is not collapsible, so any impact will be absorbed by the driver's chest. How secure are the door latches? I know that improvements were made in the mid 1950's. The general rule is "the more modern the car, the safer it is."

Lighting will be poor, not only the headlamps which are sealed beam, but the brightness and visibility of the stop lamps. As mentioned, the car did not come equipped with turn signals! There are still aftermarket kits available to add them. 

So far none of this sounds very promising for the poor LaSalle. But the minimal use that is expected should reduce my exposure to hazards. 

This company had been around for a long time.

I also wondered about the parts availability of mechanical, tune up, and routine wear items like brake shoes. Things looked pretty good. I checked the Kanter website and found brake parts; including hoses, master and wheel cylinders. There were starters, generators, water pumps, and more. The parts ranged in price from 175.00 to 250.00, not cheap, but manageable, and more importantly, available. I don't want to end up with parts availability like my old '51 Jaguar. Parts made of unobtainium!

I bought my current Riviera primarily to use for club activities, and to take to informal shows. That is the use that the LaSalle would see. But the Riviera is a fully modern car with a very stout structure, three way seat belts, dual airbags and four wheel disc brakes with ABS. It doesn't get much better than that. The car is fully suitable for modern traffic conditions. 

My Wife asked me why I would even want a car like this. Good question. It's not something that I would get a lot of use out of. Another valid point. It's also not really cheap. True, but I will pay for it out of my money. After looking at old cars for some time, the price seems more than fair, if not a bargain.

So why do I want this car? Well, I've never had a real antique, it's just a different thing. At my age there isn't that much more time available to try new things.

The fatal attraction of "the Noir Car."
photo source:filmnoir.net

I also really like the way the car looks, a lot like a Cadillac Sixty Special, one of my favorite vintage cars. I'll admit that I think of it as a "Noir Car" something that would be right at home in a '40's detective story. Maybe I've read too many Raymond Chandler novels! Am I trying to channel my inner Philip Marlowe?

Gotta admit they are cool!
photo source: film noir.net

This is an actual Sixty Special. Not too different.
photo source: auto24.com

Of course all of these failings compared to a modern car aren't really the point. An antique is an antique because it is old, and an earlier example of the continuing evolutionary design of the automobile. That is part of the attraction of antique cars, they are tangible demonstrations of automotive development. The La Salle was GM's glamour car of it's era. Kind of like the early Buick Rivieras. The styling was advanced for the time, considering that this is a "Pre War" car. It features independent front suspension, when even the vaunted Lincoln Continental was still carrying a front beam axle and a flat windshield. It featured the best V8 engine of the time, combined with a fully synchronized transmission. It was clearly an advanced car for it's era.

The other factors affecting my decision are clearly up to me, and my efforts. First, I don't currently have the room to store the car properly because I've got too many cars. Second, I don't have all the cash available to just buy the car outright. I would need to sell at least one car, That would help with both the finances as well as the space issue. I could borrow some money and arrange financing for the purchase. As in every transaction, the interests of the seller and the buyer overlap.  The space where they converge will determine the sale. The car has been offered for sale for several months, it wasn't quickly snatched up. It was just currently re-listed on CL. I don't know how many serious buyers he might have lined up and interested, trying to get their stars to align. I'm kind of leaving things up to fate. Though I will be trying to sell the '96 Mustang.

I hadn't really seriously considered all these issues before, probably because I've never been that interested in such an old car. Most of my attention has been focused on vehicles from the 1950's and much newer. 

I know that this all sounds like just more blah, blah, blah, but this discussion has been taking place in my mind, in real time for the last couple of weeks.

 

More on this topic to follow.

Who knows what the road ahead holds!
photo source: poeschloncars.com

 What will we do when we run out of old cars?

photo from web.

Hopefully not this!

The supply of old cars is diminishing. Choice models have been the first to go. 

However, Hot Rodders are known for their resourcefulness.

It didn't take long for certain parts to be reproduced. Frames, chassis parts, and bodies for early Fords. 

This makes it possible to build reproductions of classic Hot Rods using entirely new parts.

It also makes it much more expensive. Most cars are a mix of original refurbished parts and new repop parts. 

Builders also started to select unpopular, seldom modified, candidates. Most cars of a certain period look much the same, and are built in a similar manner. For example, someone might choose to build a '32 Studebaker or Hupmobile because they found one in good shape at a good price. 

The Dare to be Different mantra is said to demonstrate this trend. After all, things have to be kept affordable.

Sometimes this can lead to rather bizarre avenues of expression. 

Occasionally a builder tries to build a classic open wheel rod out of a modified "late model' vehicle.

Or they will attempt to mount an early body on a modern chassis. It can be done with a full fendered or '50's car body, but it usually fails with an open wheel type design. This was discussed in my Excalibur post. 

Just look at that Miata in the first photo. The builder wanted an open wheel look, but the front axle position remained as original.

First up I want to say that I don't blame anyone for trying to build something cool on the cheap. That is my philosophy after all! 

I actually considered building one.

Let me introduce you to Joe Pinkston's Z Rod concept.

The Z Rod (for Z28 ) was built out of a shortened body tub of a '70-'81 Camaro. The roof is cut off. The front subframe is extended, and a special fiberglass tilting hood replaces the existing hood and fenders. Reinforcements are added to the floor and door openings and the outer door sheet metal is welded into the assembly. The rear seat now becomes the only seating. 

This "cut down"rod is equipped with a "suicide front axle" 
 that sits ahead of the front cross member.
(This is actually my old hot rod project completed by the new owner.)

At least Joe got the proportions right. The front frame rails position the axle up front with the radiator. The shortened body gives it a "bobbed" appearance. As you can imagine, performance would be quite good. 

This concept sounded pretty appealing when old Camaros were a dime a dozen. The days of 200 dollar old Camaros passed years ago, actually just as Joe started promoting this idea. 

He was selling VHS tapes that documented the stages of the construction process. I was curious how all this was accomplished, so I sent away for both tapes. Joe offered this advice," keep these tapes away from your kids, or they may have this thing built before you get home from work! 

It wasn't quite that easy!

He was also planning on selling modified bodies as builder's kits. Buying an already shortened and welded up body tub seemed like the best idea. 

Another take on the concept. 

This process required a lot of cutting and structural welding. A DIY guy that wasn't a proficient welder would need to find someone to do the work. This might not have been a problem for a guy doing his own work, or in non litigious Texas, but try finding someone willing to do the work in California! There was just too much liability.

I went around talking to several welding shops in my area, and they weren't too keen on the idea! They recommended contacting a shop that fabricated limousines, as they were familiar with stretching unit bodied vehicles. However, I couldn't find a limo builder in my neighborhood. 

Custom Rodder magazine became somewhat enamored with the concept and carried a story on the Z Rod. That's where I learned of it. I wrote to Joe for an information kit. He sent an article reprinted from an Australian Rodder magazine. 

I was also pretty jazzed up on the idea at first. I considered building one as a demonstrator, then becoming a dealer and selling kits through various swap meets. However it seemed that the project fizzled out with Joe, before I ever got that far along with my plans. 

Was there ever any real merit to the concept? 

It depends. If you could do all the work yourself you could end up with something that was "unique." However these Camaros started going up in value and a donor vehicle was no longer such a bargain. 

Was the finished car something that was functional, appealing, and attractive? Well, as an open car you'd probably compare it to something like a kit "T Bucket." With no opening doors or top. It would likely be much more comfortable and I daresay, even a bit safer. Would it be financially feasible? 

That also depends on your cost for the donor and the ability to build it yourself. The kit parts, which were  primarily the fiberglass hood and frame extensions were not too expensive. 

Would it be "safe?" Truthfully, if safety is a real concern, any classic Hot rod wouldn't be a good choice. People today take it for granted that a car will protect them in a collision. These will not.

At least the VHS videos were not too pricey! 

The whole concept is something that was never really going to be too practical. It was not an idea ahead of it's time, or one who's time had come and gone. It's more of an idea that never made a whole lot of sense from the get go. 

Joe attended the 1998 Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour West.

But, it was fun to think about it!

What appealed to me was that it was fresh thinking applied to an old problem. Hot Rod resourcefulness is applied to move in a new direction, a possibly lower cost direction. So many components were modified and reused in the build. Kinda like in the Old Days. 

A question that my Son suggested  also occurred to me. "Wouldn't it just be easier to buy a Mustang GT convertible?" That is also a compact, high performance, open air vehicle. Is the Z Rod any better, or is it just "different" and possibly inferior?

I guess that it depends on your point of view.

A few examples of this type of altered car have been built out of other models. The bodies were shortened and narrowed to fit between the rear wheels. I saw one example of a mid '50's vehicle at a Good Guys show years ago. These were built out of body on frame vehicles, not unibodies like a Camaro, Mustang, or Miata.

The design of the Camaro sub frame makes it suitable for this type of conversion. Camaro "clips" had been adapted to hot rods for years prior to this. 

Maybe I should keep my eyes open for an old beat up Camaro. The only proprietary parts in the kit were the sub frame extensions and the fiberglass hood. Everything else is just chopped up Camaro. And I've still got those two VHS tapes to illustrate the process! 

Dream Motorcycle Builds. Part One. Exploring my board tracker fantasy.    

This Cyclone provides the template.

All serious car and motorcycle guys have them. They are the stuff of our imaginations. They are what we occupy our idle time musing about. Most will probably never get built, though some may.

Although I currently have six cars, I'm always looking out for something that will scratch that building itch.

While I have a couple of car builds in mind, this motorcycle just keeps popping up in my head.

One of my current mental exercises is building a board track inspired custom.

My motorcycling days have recently been on my mind since my Wife presented me with a box of photos from the 1970's through the 1990's. I found pictures of my Honda 750, my chopped Sportster and my much modified XLCR. There were also photos that documented several of the long tours that I took during this period. Looking at the "twenty something" year old me, I recalled just how much I loved riding.

What also has fired up my imagination was going to the Harley Davidson dealer to check out the latest models in person. I hadn't been there for several years. I thought that I should reacquaint myself with the line up. 

Okay, back to the topic at hand.

The Cyclone pictured above is the real thing. To me, this is the embodiment of the essence of the motorcycling spirit. Elemental. Purposeful and elegant. Beautiful, but definitely not practical as everyday transportation.

Of course this image just supplies the energy, the mojo, the essence, of what I would want to build.

There are certain  design elements that are apparent. The design is purely functional in appearance. There's nothing that does not contribute to moving that machine down a race track. In the interests of simplicity, even the brakes and transmission were omitted!

The wheels are large, narrow, and appear to be identically sized. The bike sits level with the engine nestled close to the ground. The tank is long and low and completely covers the frame top tube. The rider's seat is small. The frame is a rigid hardtail. The front forks are also rigid, and the front wheel is located close to the frame down tube and bottom fork triple clamp. This gives the bike a close coupled appearance.

This is a minimalist machine.

Could something be built with commonly available components that would echo this style?

In the past a builder would start out with the bike of their choice, then start the build by stripping the machine down to it's basic core structure. They would then start to modify that into the direction that they wished. Sometimes this involved cutting and modifying the frame, or removing, modifying, or altering the front and rear suspension members. A lot of this was driven by the builder's basic choice for the final  usage of their machine. What you built depends on how you are planning to use the bike.

There are purely utilitarian choices: adding a luggage rack, or saddle bags in order to carry more stuff. Windshields, valenced fenders, bigger tanks, more comfortable seats, back rests, added to make the bike more suitable for long distance travel.

Motorcycles that are modified for style have a lot more freedom in their design. Utility and even functionality are often compromised in order to achieve a certain look.

In the past, the builder would get his inspiration from his local group of riders, from attending shows, and rallies.

Luckily today we have the luxury of viewing hundreds of different bikes, and the ready made accessories that are available for them by perusing the Net. There are plenty of how to videos demonstrating just how certain modifications are performed.

Currently I don't even have a motorcycle. But I've owned a fair number of them and I have modified most of them to some degree or another.

I'm going to present examples of various bikes that will demonstrate ideas and I'll discuss how I might use them.

I'll also go out in the field and examine how the current crop of bikes might become my blank canvas. I've been away from the bike scene for a decade or more and currently lack the familiarity with the current market. Of course my choices have to be cost effective.

The board track racing bike exerts a strong emotional appeal on me. It is spare. It is powerful. It is the pure function of the motorcycle. The History Channel presentation of Harley and the Davidsons, recreated this exciting period in motoring history. They actually recreated the motorcycles from scratch, using period blueprints.

Scene from the History Channel's Harley and the Davidsons.
One of the Davidson Brothers rides their new bike in a demonstration.

Racing on the board track. A very dangerous sport.
Photo from the TV special.

Here is an actual vintage racer.
Note the low slung engine and lack of a front brake.
A Springer front end replaced the rigid type.

An antique bike ridden in a modern demonstration.
At least the rider gets to wear a real helmet.

Another vintage HD.

I especially like the gas tank that fits closely around the engine.

Here's another look at that Cyclone.

The strongest styling elements are the large equally sized wheels, the low slung big V twin motor, and the very slim silhouette. Some of these elements were adapted to the modern chopper.

Will it be possible to add the necessary street equipment needed for legality and preserve the mojo?

Even trying to minimize the inclusion of necessary equipment to make the bike street legal is a challenge. A small headlamp, tail lamp, and a mirror, wouldn't clutter up the lines too much. But what good is a motorcycle if you can't ride it on the street and highway? 

The Classic early Sportster highlights the wheels
 and concentrates it's mass between them.

Just as a teaser here's a picture of Ol' Bronson's Sportster. This might be a good foundation to build on. More discussion will follow with my next installment. 

 Thinking about Excaliburs,

Can a replica "be" the real thing?

and other "Neo Classic" kit cars.

I recently came across an Excalibur offered for sale on CL.  There was a link from the AACA forum, "Cars for sale. Not mine." This is a 1968 model offered at 25,000 dollars.

Excaliburs were designed by Brook Stevens, they are a recreation of the classic 1928 Supercharged Merecedes SSK roadsters. The fiberglass body was initially plunked down on a Studebaker convertible chassis and powered by a Studebaker engine. The prototype was built in 1963.

Brook Stevens was a legendary car designer. He was famous for restyling and updating older models for independent American Automakers, most notably Studebaker. For example, he took the finned Hawk of the 1950's and streamlined it into the elegant Studebaker GT. Quite an improvement.

From this.

To this.
This was the third restyling of this body.

Brook Stevens was a kind of "sow's ear to silk purse" miracle worker who helped the independents survive for a few more years. It's no wonder that he wanted to bring out his own concept. After the prototype was built for Studebaker, Stevens founded Excalibur Motor company. These cars were built in Milwaukee Wisconsin. 

Note how the body color painted cross member
does not appear out of place.

When Studebaker went out of business, Corvette engines were used. These cars were strong performers. The bodywork was of high quality and a fair reproduction of the Mercedes. The side exit exhaust system is a well built functioning component.

There wasn't much effort spent on trying to give it a true vintage looking front suspension. That would have required a solid beam, leaf sprung axle, like those commonly seen on Hot Rods. The modern cross member and independent suspension arms are in plain view. But the real design genius is displayed in that the radiator was located just aft of the cross member, giving it the proper Classic proportions.

 Classic Era cars had the radiator placed directly over, or slightly behind the front axle. 

For me, this front wheel placement instantly registers as an attractive classic cue. I've seen home made efforts to place a hot rod type body on a modern chassis that fall short because the front axle is located too far back. This is a powerful design cue, my '06 Mustang also has the front wheels located quite a bit ahead of the cowl, it gives the car great proportions. 

The central driving light is another nice touch. Also 
note the high quality grille texture.

Note that the underside of the cross member is filled in.

This is what the suspension of the original looks like.
photo source: getty images

The Excalibur also has the cross member smoothed out with metal panels welded on underneath giving a smooth finish to the chassis. By painting the cross member body color, your eye accepts it as the splash and gravel guards found on vintage cars. If you are not familiar with automotive construction it might not even raise an eyebrow. 

The frame has also received this smooth treatment. It has been filled in, so that it does not look like a modern open channel frame, likewise the suspension arms.

Enough about the chassis, how does it look overall? Pretty darn cool, or even Boss as we might have said back in '68!

You can live out your Great Gatsby fantasies.

These cars are big and substantial, and look quite impressive.

You're not going to be too comfortable.

This is a '68 model Excalibur, which makes it a contemporary of the muscle cars of it's era. It is powered by a Corvette engine which gives it instant credibility. I was in the seventh grade back then. My lunch periods were filled with discussions about the cool cars that we'd seen or heard about, during the week. 

I made a comment on the AACA thread, that this was the "Uber Gazelle." The Gazelle being one of the most popular neo classic kits cars of the 70's and '80's. These were usually VW powered.

This is an MG repro, but the Gazelle and it's 
siblings are very similar. 

This particular MG fiberglass body was used as the basis for reproductions of several different vintage cars: The MG, the Jaguar SS, the pre war Mercedes, there were probably more. There wasn't that much differentiation. Certain details were used to give them a marque specific feel. Most of the earlier kits were plopped down on a VW floor pan, so that was the power train. Later on, a ladder type frame was an option and these were usually powered by a four cylinder Pinto engine. 

One of my biggest gripes is that so many builders used the cheapest wire spoke wheel covers that they could buy. Extremely unconvincing, and it really makes the cars look low buck. This Excalibur sports genuine knock off wires for more sports car cred. 

Comparing the "factory built" Excalibur against the kit car Gazelles shows their differences. The kit  cars are a bit smaller but they can be easily mistaken by most folks. Of course, the Excalibur was expensive and cost more than a Cadillac when it was new.

Neither of these cars could be described as comfortable, lacking most of the amenities that a modern driver is accustomed to. Neither has even the most basic convenience of roll up windows. Forget heating and a/c, or an easily erected convertible top. The seats on the smaller cars and even the Excalibur, don't look that comfortable. I won't go into the lack of operator safety features. Effective seat belts? Nope. Collision survival features really can't be built into these kinds of platforms. Both could benefit from a roll bar.

Could cars of this kind be considered as a fun hobby car? 

They can, but you always have to be aware of their limitations. In many ways they are similar to traditional hot rods built from 1920's to '30's cars. 

There are many traditional hot rods built off of new repop frames and suspensions with fiberglass copies of early Ford bodies. The low buck kit car, the repop hot rod, and even the Excalibur all spring from the same concept. However their partisans will argue vociferously over that statement! 

The attraction to these cars is that they are basic automobiles, open top roadsters.  The driver and passenger are quite exposed, much like a classic 20's Speedster. Open top cars are fun, I've had many convertibles. When the weather is right, top down driving can't be beat. 

I once got a ride in a dune buggy and I will admit that it is quite different than riding in my Mustang convertible. As a passenger you are more exposed to the elements, and the pavement rushes past you so close, that you can almost reach down and touch it.

In many ways, it feels a lot like riding a motorcycle, it's raw and visceral.

I think that these early, basic Excaliburs are the "real thing."  Then there's that name, Excalibur. That was the name of fabled King Arthur's sword, pulled from a stone! What a romantic and evocative name! 

Sure beats Gazelle!

Unfortunately, when the company was revived, most of the designs were of larger closed cars, that look more like a parody, than an original. 

In my next segment I'll compare the VW based neo classic kit cars against the Excalibur.